Gotham's Cameron Monaghan Talks Jerome's Shocking Moment, Joker And More
Lucas Siegel
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(Photo: Fox)
SPOILERS Ahead for tonight's episode of Gotham, "The Last Laugh!"
With a stab, and a sob, Jerome's tale came to an end tonight on Gotham. It was a shocking ending to a story that flew at a rapid pace for the last three weeks, escalating the threat of the character while also increasing everyone's certainty that this character just had to be The Joker.
Well, he may have been an aspect of The Joker, something actor Cameron Monaghan grasped onto when he first got the role. In a phone interview, Monaghan told ComicBook.com why Jerome as the Joker wasn't a red herring, talking instead about adding to the myth of the character. He also talked about his influences (both deliberate and subconscious), the Joker's legacy, and what it took to film his last scenes. He even weighed in on a certain theory about who else might become The Joker now that Jerome is out of the way, and which other DC character he'd like a shot at portraying.
Check out the full interview below, and have yourself a laugh in honor of the Joker-that-wasn't, Jerome.
Cameron, how early on did you know your character was an elaborate red herring? How did that affect your approach?
Cameron Monaghan: Well I think that “red herring” might be a bit of a misnomer, as no one exactly established what role he plays in the mythos. He is a part of the story, and that’s what we’ve always tried to tell people.
I tried to not let it affect my approach in that I was just trying to approach the character of Jerome within his own context, and applying the beats and the arc of the character, what felt natural and right with him in context of the scene. You know, you can’t be too concerned with the philosophical meanings of the character and how it will affect everything else. You can only approach the character as it is, so that’s what I tried to do.
Your performance has aspects of several great Jokers, with the elaborate line delivery of Ledger, the showmanship of Nicholson, and the pure delight (and laugh) of Hamill. How much was a concerted effort to draw from those while still adding your own stamp, or is that stuff that just really comes out of the character?
CM: I mean, those were performances that I admired so much growing up. Obviously, they’ve sunk into the popular consciousness, and they were also extremely near and dear to my heart – so much so that I didn’t want to touch the character at first, because they honestly intimidated me! There was no way that I was going to directly pull from those, at least consciously.
I’m sure that in some ways it’s sunken into my psyche and I’m not going to be able to help it (laughs), but we are playing very similar characters, and there is going to be a lot of crossover in that sense. Also, I think that each of their performances has directly affected the comics and redefined the character within other media. I tried to read as much of the comics as possible, and not just the classic runs like The Killing Joke or Laughing Fish and Joker’s Five Way Revenge, but also the new stories as well. Each of these actors have redefined the danger of the psychosis of the character in major ways that had ripple effects across the media. So I was just trying to find the core of those ripples, and then hopefully put them back into this in some way that made sense.
Very cool; so you read some of the more recent stuff like Death of the Family too?
CM: Yeah, Death of the Family, Endgame, pretty much every run I could get my hands on!
What is it to you about the Joker as a character and really as a concept that’s so lasting across 75 years and so many different interpretations across media?
CM: I think what has always attracted me to villains in general, but specifically to the Joker is the strange charisma; there’s something intoxicating about anyone who’s so firmly implanted in their beliefs and so completely defines their life in support of this idea, no matter how dangerous or destructive or horrific it is. The Joker really is the living embodiment of a full commitment to an ideal: the commitment to insanity.
Let’s talk a little bit about the climactic scene to me from episode 3, at the ball, when Jerome takes over. How was that shooting that scene? It seems like an immense challenge, leading this troupe of talented actors up to the shocking end.
CM: It was intimidating, and difficult, and exhausting! I was quite literally standing on a stage in front of hundreds of people in a spotlight (laughs) and doing so many strange things, and having to try to be the showman that this character is. He loves being in the spotlight in a way that I personally could never understand, but he loves it, so I had to embody it. It was a full five days of shooting, of fifteen hour days, just one scene after another after another. It was all trying to figure out how to escalate that and play around with it, but retain a sense of showmanship and danger and fun.
Thankfully, I had a really great director, who I have to give a shoutout, Eagle Egilsson, who really not only has a great visual sense, but also has a great sense of performance, and was able to kind of wrangle me.
The fact was by that third episode, I was really going off – I’d sometimes completely throw out the lines and say whatever was working, or felt right in that context. Him being able to structure that into anything that made sense really amazed me (laughs).
Interesting that you did a lot of improv, because it definitely felt very real and off-the-cuff.
CM: It was off-the-cuff but at the same time, it was coming from a really great base that they had given me. The sense of humor and the attitude and the confidence of all the action was built up in the last three episodes. That was there, and I was able to then crack as many jokes as I wanted to, and I had a captive audience, so there it was!
Your give and take with Erin (Richards, Barbara Kean on the show) was also notable. How was it working with her? It seemed like that relationship came very naturally to the two of you.
CM: Yeah, she is great, and she found a sense of comfort, with such a complete turnaround in the character from how the first season started to where she is now, it’s very impressive. She gave it back in a way that was great, because then I could keep giving; we were able to kind of push back with each other, and it was natural. The scenes wouldn’t have worked had there not been a chemistry in our performance, so I was thankful that it did work.”
Bruno Heller told me when I talked to him about this episode, “When we saw Cameron’s performance, there was a moment that we went, oh hell, he’s genius,” and they did second-guess a bit about having to kill you off so soon. If there was any way for Jerome to return (because hey, this is comics), is that a drop-of-the-hat opportunity for you?
CM: I mean, it would depend, just like it has every single time, on how it’s done, if it makes sense, what the ideas were. Obviously, I’ve had an extraordinary time and a fun time with the character so far. But I wouldn’t want to ever do something that felt forced or unnatural to the story that they were telling or to the story of the character. If they could find a natural, logical way to bring Jerome back? Then yeah, I probably would. But there’s no telling as of right now.
I have a personal theory I’ve been asking folks about – I think Barbara will be The Joker eventually on Gotham. What do you think about that, and do you have any other thoughts on who could or should be The Joker now that you’re out of the running?
CM: The great thing about this character is that he can sort of be anyone. I think that if Erin was given the opportunity, I’m sure she could do a great job with it. Regardless, she’s done an extraordinary job with Barbara as a character so far.
I don’t know! I wouldn’t be able to (laughs) tell you who my theory was, because I honestly have no idea! But I look forward to finding out.
Have you seen the final cut of the episode, and that sequence of “inspiration” while you’re lying on a slab?
CM: I actually haven’t seen any of the episodes (laughs). I don’t enjoy watching myself! I’m sure I will watch this at some point because I want to see what this extraordinary crew and these actors have done, I want to see all of that, but I just haven’t quite built up the nerve to it yet.
You have to watch the last five minutes or so of this episode at least! What’s something that surprised you about your time on Gotham?
CM: I have to say, it was an extraordinarily warm set, which is something that I wasn’t sure it was going to be. I think a lot of times, network shows are under a lot of mandates, there’s a lot of moving pieces, there’s a lot of money, there’s a lot of people who are going to be disappointed if anything goes wrong. From the crew to the actors to the network, it was an extremely welcoming environment in a way that I just honestly wasn’t expecting. This show is grim and gothic and it’s about dark subject matter, and I didn’t know how it was going to be on set.
Now that you’ve had a taste of comic book adaptations, and it sounds like you’re a fan, are there any others you’re dying to be a part of?
CM: I don’t know! (laughs) It would just depend on what it is… but to be honest, I’d like to be Batman!
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you can't be Batman, silly! you were born to be the Joker <3
If you're listening to this... you're the Resistance.-
On Monday's Gotham, the show abruptly ended its time with breakout villain Jerome Valeska (guest star Cameron Monaghan) when he met a surprising and untimely death at the hands of his mentor/benefactor Theo Galavan (James Frain). While we knew Monaghan's regular gig onShameless would preclude him from appearing continually on Gotham, the show was leaning so heavily on Jerome's Joker-isms that we didn't expect the show to shuffle him off the stage so permanently.
Although Monaghan knew his character's fate before filming on Season 2 began, he was thrilled with the bold choice. "The show really is stepping it up in the second season. They're not afraid to knock down the cards that they have stacked previously," Monaghan tells TVGuide.com. "They're not pulling punches. I think that is what makes for really exciting television when it is dangerous and it's unpredictable like that. And it was great to have a knowledge of that final moment because then I could build an arc according to it and know what beats I wanted to hit in each episode to be able to lead up to that climax."
But Jerome had an eventful outing before his death. First, he paid a visit to his father Paul Cicero (guest star Mark Margolis) to give him the same treatment he gave his mother last season. But before Jerome killed his blind dad - and narrowly escaped Jim Gordon (Ben McKenzie), who was visiting Cicero looking for a lead on Jerome -- Cicero gave his son a vicious warning. "You will be a curse upon Gotham," he said. "Children will wake from sleep screaming at the thought of you. Your legacy will be death and madness."
Undeterred, Jerome crashed the Gotham Children's Hospital Gala as The Great Rudolfo. But, with the help of Barbara (Erin Richards), his magic act soon turned violent as he held Bruce Wayne (David Mazouz) hostage as live news cameras rolled. But just as Jerome, Gordon and Alfred (Sean Pertwee) became locked in a standoff, Theo stabbed his supposed ally in madness in the neck, apologizing for not sticking to what the duo had rehearsed. (Instead, he's clearly playing the hero in order to win the hearts of the Gothamites he ultimately wants to destroy.)
"Theo becomes kind of this twisted father figure character to Jerome in a certain way and it's a really nice reflection to have Jerome murder his father and then his father figure to murder him within the same episode," Monaghan says, noting that Theo ultimately realized that his goals could be better achieved without Jerome as a wild card.
"Jerome is extremely dangerous and extremely volatile," Monaghan says. "I think one of the defining factors of him is that he doesn't take a step back and because of that, he's extremely unpredictable. I think Theo had an awareness of that and utilized it to his advantage. But he knew that if he kept him around for any longer, his own self would probably be in jeopardy as well. So, he had to take out the free radical in the situation."
As for the experience of playing a proto-Joker, Monaghan, who identifies himself as a "massive fan" of Batman and the Joker, says he was as terrified as he was honored to take on the role last season. As such, he took even more time to prepare before his Season 2 arc, which involved some long conversations with executive producer Danny Cannon about who Jerome would be.
"I remember something that was really important to me was the fact that there should be nothing about him that strikes you as immediately intimidating," Monaghan says. "What's insidious about him is that his insanity is what makes him so dangerous. I had just read this story about Jeffrey Dahmer in prison and how all the other prisoners who were much bigger, much scarier were afraid of him because he was so nonchalantly insane. ... That dark thought kind of led to the conversation of making sure that what made him scary was the fact that he wasn't innately scary."
But that's not to say that Monaghan wasn't aware of previous portrayals of the Joker. While Monaghan tried to put the live-action performances of Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger out of his mind ("It was important to me to try to find moments where it was different because I'm playing Jerome at the end of the day. I have to treat him as his own man, as his own character," Monaghan says) it was the animated version of the character voiced by Mark Hamill that spoke to the actor most anyway. "What I could take was his virtuosity and the levels that he takes everything he does," he says. "Every time he laughs, there's always something different. That's something I really admire about him. And even just the way that the character was drawn in the animated series -- that's something I always admired, and something I tried to bring into a live-action context when I was filming."
As for what Jerome's death means for the show, Monaghan says he has no qualms with his early departure. Rather, he's excited to see how Jerome's madness, as prophesied by his father, spreads all over Gotham, ultimately infecting the future Joker that Batman will eventually battle.
"I think we saw Jerome find his meaning," Monaghan says. "He finds his purpose within the first episode after meeting Galavan and admiring his grandiosity, his using of the entire world as his stage. I think from the moment he saw that, he instantly had a purpose in life and he fulfilled it beautifully. I think he knew exactly what he was doing. He says he's going to spread across the city like a virus and I think he would be riveted. It would be a joy to him to see just how deep his effects and influence will run."
If you're listening to this... you're the Resistance.-
[Warning: This story contains spoilers forGotham season two, episode three, "The Last Laugh."]
A week after Fox's Gotham raised the stakes by offing police commissioner Sarah Essen, Monday's "The Last Laugh" went even further in proving that no one is safe when Jerome Valeska (Shameless series regular Cameron Monaghan) — the boy who it seemed was destined to become the Joker — was killed.
In a surprise twist, Theo Galavan (James Frain) went further than anyone expected in pretending to save the day from Valeska at a public event, stabbing the villain in the neck to ensure — for the cameras — that he would never be able to threaten anyone ever again. Even as the final scene of the episode showed Valeska on the slab in the morgue — while, curiously enough, citizens of Gotham start laughing uncontrollably for mysterious reasons — it seemed unreal: Could Jerome really be dead? The Hollywood Reporter caught up with Monaghan to find out.
We didn't see that coming!
It's quite the punchline, huh?
Is Jerome really dead?
I don't know! It's a comic book world, and sometimes in a comic book world, people don't stay dead for very long! [Laughs.] But I wouldn't be able to tell you if something was going to happen later this season or in a season to come.
Did you have an idea, going into the season, that this was how Jerome would end up?
Yes. I knew prior to filming the game play of the season and what was going to go down, which I was thankful for. It let me plan out an arc for Jerome, and know which beats I'd want to hit for each episode to be able to build up to that episode, and have it be the gut punch that it is.
What kind of beats were on your list?
I wanted to accomplish a specific goal for each episode. Episode one was the establishment that he has full-on embraced the personality that he revealed in his appearance last season, and at the end of that episode, he begins to understand the concept of being a showman, leading to the second episode, which sees him rise to that stage. And the third one, he becomes the full-on villain, he truly has lost any sense of humanity. He kills his father, he literally takes the stage, he reaches the height of his insanity. It was a matter of trying to find each beat for each stage of that journey.
When Jerome confronted his father, it was as if his mask slipped and we saw the anger and pain behind the clown. He suddenly seemed more human. Was that something you consciously tried to bring out?
No! [Laughs.] If anything, it took effort to try and squash the humanity in him. I think there's an innate tendency with actors in wanting to humanize, but one of the defining things about this character is that he's trying to kill his humanity in any way, shape or form possible. [His humanity] was something that came through in the scenes, but it was something that I was consciously not wanting to bring out. I didn't want it to feel forced.
Jerome was teased as being the proto-Joker, and certainly had obvious callouts to that character — especially when it came to the laugh. Did you look at earlier onscreen incarnations of that character to inspire Jerome?
No. Especially not the live-action ones; those performances are something I admired — Jack Nicholsonbrought this sense of danger to the character, and then Heath Ledger redefined that danger, and both did such incredible work — but there was no way I was ever going to be able to top them. The only thing I could do was to play Jerome, and let him find his own quirks and his own identity.
So who was Jerome to you?
I wanted him to be someone who has this sick charisma — to make you want to watch him, even though he's doing atrocious things. He's a showman, and he has this sense of humor that you can't help but admire, and this commitment to his insanity on this large level. To me, it was important to push the comedy and the showmanship. That's where I managed to find him.
Talking about the comedy — that laugh…
For my first episode [in the first season], there was this process that took place for a few weeks over the Christmas break. I found out I got the role, and before I started filming, I locked myself into my apartment and I was doing it every day, all day. Neighbors probably thought I was going to kill somebody, or that I was killing somebody, I think; they still look at me pretty funny.
Between the first and second season, what was important to me was that it never sounded the same depending on the context, because the laugh is reflection on what he's feeling, and how he's feeling. Sometimes it's smaller and more maniacal, and sometimes it's pure glee. It's trying to find the different levels, and that is something I did learn from a Joker, from Mark Hamill's portrayal [in the 1990s animated Batmanseries].
Every time he does the laugh, it's totally different, and totally reflective of the context of what's going on. That inspired me, I wanted to make sure I did that as well.
Is there a sense of missed opportunity to leaving Jerome behind so early? It looked as if he was going to be one of the major characters in the season.
I was happy to get to touch anything in this mythos at all — I love Batman in many forms, from the comics to the TV series to the movies. I've been a massive fan since I was a kid. I did think that the one scene I did last season was genuinely going to be it, and I had come to terms with that. And then, by the end of the season, they approached me about coming back for some more, which was an incredible surprise.
I remember there was a moment in the second episode where I jump onto the side of the moving gas truck and I get to do the laugh as I'm driving away, and, within that moment, I had this surreal experience of, 'Oh my gosh, I'm getting to do this right now.' Most of the time, I was so focused on the work — and it was so nerve-racking — that I was never able to really take a step back and appreciate it. At that one moment, I got to have this out-of-body experience, and it was amazing.
Does killing Jerome make Theo Galavan more of a threat? And what does Jerome's death mean for the future of the Joker? Use the comments to share your thoughts, condolences and gnashing of teeth.
If you're listening to this... you're the Resistance.-
The following contains spoilers from this week’s episode of Fox’s Gotham.
As Fox’s Gotham drills deeper into Season 2, the DC Comics-based drama is now playing with a slightly less full deck.
In this Monday’s episode, Theo Galavan, Jerome and Barbara put on quite a show for the town, with the latter pair lording over a mayhem-filled magic show at a charity gala. Ultimately, Theo would play the role of “hero” in front of the city’s elite, in part by going off script and plunging a knife into Jerome’s neck.
Here, Shameless star Cameron Monaghan shares the secrets behind his Gothamrun, including his main inspiration in playing that joker Jerome, and how the wild role made for many sleepless nights.
TVLINE | First of all, what all did the producers tell you about this character and what they’d want from you, when you were first cast?
When I was first cast, it was for just the one episode in the first season, and they told me that he’s a character involved in the Joker mythos in some way — “He may be the Joker, he may not. But we’re going to have you do the scene.” I immediately said yes, and then I said, “Oh wait, I dont know if I want to touch this,” because this is something extremely near and dear to my heart. Then, towards the close of that season, they asked me to be a part of the second, the idea being that I would get to play around with it even more. Taking that character to new places, to new levels, was something that was extremely exciting to me.
TVLINE | What were you most conscious of doing and not doing as you created Jerome? We hear a little Jack Nicholson in his voice, see a little Heath Ledger in his glower…
I hadn’t specifically tried to draw from the context of any live-action actor. They obviously are extremely, extremely influential to me. As someone who as a kid watched these movies a lot and loved them and admired them, I’m sure they burrowed deep into my subconscious but it’s not something I consciously wanted to do. The only performance I felt at all comfortable with drawing inspiration from was Mark Hamill from the animated series. He’s lived with that character for 20 years and he’s done incredible work with it, and his dynamism is something I really appreciated. Beyond that, it was just reading every major run in the comics involving the character that I could get my hands on, looking at his face, how h’s drawn, and taking what I could from that.
TVLINE | Would you say that Jerome is one unabashedly sick puppy?
[Laughs] Yes, I think you could call him a sick puppy — and he would appreciate it. He would probably thank you. He enjoys killing his humanity, sometimes literally, as when killing his parents and what made him. He is fully committed to an idea of insanity in a way that is almost admirable. It’s completely horrifying, but there’s something strangely charismatic about his passion.
TVLINE | He had that line when he got the briefing from Theo, “You’re singin’ my song.”
Yeah, the Galavan character (played by James Frain) is the first person I think that Jerome has come across that introduces the idea of using the world as a grand stage to perform evil, of not just having small personal acts but taking it to a larger level. Galavan was almost a strange father figure to him, which was a nice turn.
TVLINE | Have you seen the finished episode? What do you make of the closing montage, which evokes Jerome’s father’s premontiion?
Yeah, Jerome even says it to Essen in the second episode, that he’ll “spread across the city like a virus.” That’s the best way to describe his personality, as infectious, in the best and worst ways possible.
TVLINE | What will you miss most about this show?
I’m going to miss playing around with this part, and I’ll miss my fellow actors who are not only phenomenal in front of the camera but are also incredibly lovely people. For a cast full of “villains” and “tough guys,” they were all really sweet and welcoming. I’m not going to miss the many, many sleepless nights that I had with this part.
TVLINE | What exactly made your nights sleepless?
It was a mixture of excitement and intimidation, and the role itself as well. I was in that character’s head space when we were filming, for 15 hours a day, so thankfully I had a very patient girlfriend. [Laughs] When I got back home while I was still “on,” she was like, “OK, Cameron, all right…. I got it.”
TVLINE |Because you were so excited to play this role, did you ever circle back with the producers to ask, “Are you sure he’s not the Joker, with a capital J? Are you certain?”
I think he’s the Joker in that he represents the idea, the greater concept. And somewhere, some kid or some person watched [his videos/the news coverage] and it burrowed into their mind, and one day it will snap and take them over. The idea of this person will possess someone completely new. So, I love that idea — something about it really is chilling and excited me when I read the episode.
If you're listening to this... you're the Resistance.-